[Faith]

I believe this film is out now. Here is the trailer The Libertine

And also, if anyone is willing to go there, let us discuss libertine morality, or lack there of. I don't know about you, but with each passing day, I'm growing stronger as a libertine. And I think it's beautiful.

:)

[stella diver x]

I concider myself a libertine of sorts, being free spirited, and not attached to any social or religious norm.
It is a great way to be, and I can't wait to see this movie. :D
I've read alot about Mr. Crowley, as he is constantly brought up in books about Mysticism.
He was pretty brilliant, but like many of that ilk, fell into a dark place, dying sad and alone.( addicted to wicked substances too)

I've established plenty of morals that are for my own good, but I embrace/accept all kinds of ways of being, and like to keep an open mind. ( especially in the bedroom) ^_^

[Faith]

Crowley was indeed a fascinating man. I've read a lot on him through my inquiry into gnosticism, and other things...

This film should be beautifully disturbing!

[interpolMOD1]

The movie poster looks like Sleepy Hollow with the red writing. ha The trailer and content look good, plus, it's got Johnny Depp, so you can't go wrong.

I had to look up the definition of libertine. Looks like I have been one and didn't know it. And although I take it's not the norm, I can't imagine any other way of living.

[Florentino]

yep, happy too see french people have a lovely accent in movies...

[muzicgirl]

Daft Punk, on Dec 14 2005, 03:22 PM, said:

So, what is a 'libertine'?

You should learn to look things up, Mr. Lazypants.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertine

[stella diver x]

Daft Punk, on Dec 14 2005, 02:42 PM, said:

I only asked because it'd be more interesting to hear personal takes on it. But, nevertheless, thank you, muzicgay. ^_^

Tbh, I figured nihilism might have something to do with it. Sounds like another reason to be all, like, "OOOH LUK @ ME !M N INDIVIJEWL!ONE!". Any form of 'free-thinking' ("LOL", btw), which then see's fit to fall under a pretty inclusive adjective is all a bit ironic, too. Y'know, "I'm free from restraint, 'cause I'm a Libertine/nihilist/individual. Guffaw." Lame.

You really are a punk. ^_^



Nah, I agree, it's not about proving how unique or individualistic you are. It isn't going out of your way to be different.
It should just come naturally.

3dsound, on Dec 14 2005, 03:12 PM, said:

Personal view? forget about free thinking, here is what it is really all about:
LIBERTINE

..just hiding behind words

:lol:

pffft, well since you put it that way, I guess it makes perfect sense. ^_^

Being a loose woman is teh Awesome!

This post has been edited by stella diver x: 14 December 2005 - 04:35 PM

[stella diver x]

Daft Punk, on Dec 14 2005, 03:57 PM, said:

:wub:

[interpolMOD1]

Daft Punk, on Dec 14 2005, 03:42 PM, said:

I only asked because it'd be more interesting to hear personal takes on it. But, nevertheless, thank you, muzicgay. ^_^

Tbh, I figured nihilism might have something to do with it. Sounds like another reason to be all, like, "OOOH LUK @ ME !M N INDIVIJEWL!ONE!". Any form of 'free-thinking' ("LOL", btw), which then see's fit to fall under a pretty inclusive adjective is all a bit ironic, too. Y'know, "I'm free from restraint, 'cause I'm a Libertine/nihilist/individual. Guffaw." Lame.

I had to look it up too. According to this site: http://www.thefreedi...y.com/libertine
1. One who acts without moral restraint; a dissolute person.
2. One who defies established religious precepts; a freethinker.
I don't consider myself dissolute, but I certainly don't conform to a religious dogma. Why do they have to say "dissolute" though? That pisses me off a bit. How come everything has to think in terms of such extremes??? I am not a herd animal, but I am not a whore either. Hedonisom is just as much bullshit as is religion.

As far as your definition, that might be some people, but that's not me.

[Faith]

3dsound, on Dec 14 2005, 04:57 PM, said:

eheh. one of the most annoying french song I ever heard is actually untitled Libertine:

I, I am a libertine
I am a whore
I I am so fragile
Please take my hand

split the moon, kisses of thorns and feathers
rocked by a light wind, I am strolling
life is as sad as a glass of grenadine
to love is to wheep when one bows down

blah blah blah..etc... ZZZZZZZZZZ

Marquis de Sade must be laughing in his grave at this one. btw, that is one that took the definition of "libertine" into extreme, & he payed a high price for it.

De Sade is Jesus to me.

A libertine is not a whore. Your statement is pure fallacy. A whore is simply a whore.

Libertine is simply a term. A classification of those who really just don't give a fuck. Hedonists without social limitations.

It's sad how dismissive you are over something you know little about.

[Linderella]

I’ll admit that I don’t know a hell of a lot about this topic. I haven’t read any of Crowley’s stuff, only lame interpretations. But I think I understand the concept of it. However, I don’t understand how one can be a Libertine in reality. In this day and age, how can anyone say that they live without moral restraints? Living outside of social and religious norms, I understand. Personally, I’m not affiliated with any religious groups and I’d like to think that I’m slightly left of centre in many of my views. But that hardly qualifies me as a Libertine. How can anyone think it’s noble to live your life being controlled by nothing but your own self-serving motives? If I did what I truly wanted to do, I’d be running around town in my pj bottoms and fuzzy slippers, picking my nose, and stealing puppies and kittens from little kids so that I could set up my own petting zoo. But instead, I know that I’m influenced by social and moral norms and live my life like most people – have a decent job, pay the mortgage, hang out with family and friends, etc. Does a real Libertine say to hell with that and actually does whatever he/she wants to do whenever they please? To me, if I'm living without social or moral norms, then that gives me free reign to do whatever the hell I want as long as it pleases me.

So, does a real Libertine actually live without subscribing to social, religious or moral norms in all aspects of life (not just the bedroom) or am I taking the definition way too literally?

[muzicgirl]

Linderella, on Dec 15 2005, 11:52 AM, said:

If I did what I truly wanted to do, I’d be running around town in my pj bottoms and fuzzy slippers, picking my nose, and stealing puppies and kittens from little kids so that I could set up my own petting zoo.

I'm not saying you are, but that kinda sounds like it goes beyond libertine and borderlines on psycho. Funny mental picture for someone with" finals brain" anyways. :)

[Linderella]

muzicgirl, on Dec 15 2005, 02:41 PM, said:

I'm not saying you are, but that kinda sounds like it goes beyond libertine and borderlines on psycho. Funny mental picture for someone with" finals brain" anyways. :)

Admission to my petting zoo will be free. When it's open, I'll let you know and will extend a formal invite to everyone.

[Faith]

Linderella, on Dec 15 2005, 11:52 AM, said:

So, does a real Libertine actually live without subscribing to social, religious or moral norms in all aspects of life (not just the bedroom) or am I taking the definition way too literally?

I'm not going to argue what qualifies one as a libertine. I think it's just a state of mind.

Libertine has been given an almost myth like persona. That is why it is hard to fathom the possibilities of being one and interacting with society. It's just an outlook on life. I consider myself to have the libertine mindset, because I have an utter despise for ethics. That is to say, I despise shame tactics for governing people. If I have the desire to do something, and the society I live in considers it to be taboo, then why should I succomb to that? A libertine simply thinks how they want to think, and strives for autonomy as opposed to following the "values of our forefathers." They steer clear from tradition, and try to live completely in the moment.

Now I think where most people's confusion lies are in the subjects of theory and action. If we look at the most famous libertine, De Sade, you will see that it was his thought process that made him the paridigm of this philosophy. Here is a man who lived with a mind that was thought to be perverse and base. He was an aristrocrat, and he used his power to do what he wanted and to live how he pleased. Then he was imprisoned. Now evidently, his attempts at living a life free of social restriction failed, however it did not stop how he thought, and how he viewed things. And so he wrote. He wrote down every thought and fantasy, however perverse society deemed it, and he shared it with the world.

Since he did not act on those fantasies, did that make him not a libertine? No. Because a philosophy is just a way of viewing things. One can always strive to live by that philosophy, but it's the struggle and the process that makes you a follower of a certain belief.

So yes, society works a certain way. It always has been so. Even during De Sade's and Crowley's time. One doesn't doubt that they lived, correct? And they were far from above the law. But it was just how they saw the world, that made them who they were.

How does a libertine "live" as one. By expressing there views freely. And if they are repressed one way, they find other outlets to express it, like through art.

And again, you can dismiss it. But even so, libertinism is a reality.

[stella diver x]

Faith, on Dec 15 2005, 03:07 PM, said:

I'm not going to argue what qualifies one as a libertine. I think it's just a state of mind.

Libertine has been given an almost myth like persona. That is why it is hard to fathom the possibilities of being one and interacting with society. It's just an outlook on life. I consider myself to have the libertine mindset, because I have an utter despise for ethics. That is to say, I despise shame tactics for governing people. If I have the desire to do something, and the society I live in considers it to be taboo, then why should I succomb to that? A libertine simply thinks how they want to think, and strives for autonomy as opposed to following the "values of our forefathers." They steer clear from tradition, and try to live completely in the moment.

I agree in that my problem with say for example- Religion, is the way it uses guilt complexes to control people. ( sin, repenting, right, wrong, good, bad)
in addition to that, I firmly believe that anyone that follows a specific religion, or system of belief to a heretic degree(fanatical),usually leads to mental instability and insanity.

That is the reason I concider the basic aspect of libertine ideals to be somewhat safe in that being a free thinker is good for the soul. Constricting yourself to follow what everyone else says is right or ok for you to do is unhealthy. It's just being free to accept many different beliefs/ideals and applying them to how they fit your life best.

[stella diver x]

Daft Punk, on Dec 15 2005, 03:38 PM, said:

Dismissal doesn't have to be a projection of belief in something's reality. It can be an expression on its value, too.

Also, Faith's description seemed pretty large in scope, as far as the term 'Libertine' is concerned. Therefore, what happens when the desire of one Libertine leads directly to infringement on the life of another person, Libertine or not? Is there not reason enough there to question such a philosophy?

Well, I think she made it clear, everything is safe in the realm of thought, it's only when it becomes an act.
I am not going to condone a perverse lifestyle where, hey, go ahead and molest children fuck society and it's restrictions on that being wrong.

[stella diver x]

Daft Punk, on Dec 15 2005, 03:49 PM, said:

Ah, so 'freedom of thought' is only free up to a point? Or may I advocate paedophilia as part of a hedonistic lifestyle which I'd like to promote, but y'know... only in, say, writing and film?

Thought is only a motivation away from becoming action.

Who deems what is restriction of thought and action, and what's 'being free' in thought and action? A priest? A 'libertine'? In this situation, both are one and the same.

I thought about this too. It's true that all acts usually stem from a seed planted in thought.

I aslo completely agree with you on the last statement about priests vs libertines. Seems more priests are caught in the act of this abomination, but maybe only cause they are under tough scrutiny from society, and people tend to be alot more inclined to being shocked when it is from someone in a religious authority position.
That's why I stand by my opinion that extremes in thinking or belief practices are not safe. Pagan, Christian, hedonist, whatever... everything needs balance.